DDM4 not a good first day out.

[charliegriffitts]

I finally took my new Daniel Defense M4v2 out and shot it today. I'm really hoping that it was just the ammo, but I can tell you first hand that Wolf Military Classic Ammo will not run in this gun. I couldn't get more than 2 consecutive shots without a jam. Even had a couple times where the fired rounds casing only extracted half way and the next round in the mag was pushed in beside it. I really wish I had taken other types of ammo with me so I could have already tried them, but it was a spur of the moment thing and I already had the Wolf loaded up. I brought it home tonight, cleaned, inspected, lubed the crap out of it with some clp, and tomorrow I'm going to try again with some brass ammo to see if it was just the ammo causing the problem. I only put 23 rounds through it before giving up because I was beginning to worry about possibly breaking something with the jams being as bad as they were. I have read in several places about the Wolf being underpowered especially in carbine length gas systems, so I will find out tomorrow and then report back.

[hillbillytnt]

I've used wolf in my mp15 carbine and my 7.5 pistol and never had a prob. The early stuff was bad to sieze if you let it get hot and left one in the barrel. The laquer finish was the problem then but I haven't seen that in the newer stuff. It's dirty but both mine run on it fine. I have herd that some guns don't like it. Two ar's doesn't make me an expert but one of th other guys will be along soon.

[Armor-Hyde]

Wolf is what I test all AR's with (Unless they are Match built)...
I've always looked at the AR & AK as similar in that they are supposed to be battle rifles, therefore should function with any ammo tossed at them.

If it won't run Wolf, it's probably a tighter tolerance than needed! Not necessarily a bad, thing, but if you're not after sub MOA then why tighten up an AR? Try some factory brass cased ammo & see how it performs, I'd speculate the chambers is a bit snug & not liking the steel cases...So plan on spending a bit more to feed it!

[stavman]

It's just a buffer issue. I think DD rifles come from the factory with heavy buffers. Toss in a normal carbine buffer and I bet it will work.

[Lashout06R]

I have never been a fan of the wolf 5.56 in an AR.
But I know alot of peeps shoot it. Just my .02

Right off, Sounds like an EXTRACTION issue ...
“HillBillytnt” – “The laquer finish was the problem then but I haven't seen that in the newer stuff”
Does the wolf look like they heavily lacquered or older?
I would also agree with Armor-Hyde, that your chamber is “a bit snug & not liking the steel cases”

Definitely take couple dif manufactures and some brass ammo to the range to try again.

You did mention “Stove Pipes”.. Is it a new build and its “Short Stroking”??? Check the gas rings, Easy check while you have home.

[stavman]

Originally Posted by Lashout06R

I have never been a fan of the wolf 5.56 in an AR.
But I know alot of peeps shoot it. Just my .02

Right off, Sounds like an EXTRACTION issue ...
“HillBillytnt” – “The laquer finish was the problem then but I haven't seen that in the newer stuff”
Does the wolf look like they heavily lacquered or older?
I would also agree with Armor-Hyde, that your chamber is “a bit snug & not liking the steel cases”

Definitely take couple dif manufactures and some brass ammo to the range to try again.

You did mention “Stove Pipes”.. Is it a new build and its “Short Stroking”??? Check the gas rings, Easy check while you have home.

"Even had a couple times where the fired rounds casing only extracted half way and the next round in the mag was pushed in beside it."


It's short stroking. The wolf ammo is underpowered. I'm sure it will function fine with full power 5.56. I'm sure if he shot a few hundred rounds of full power 5.56 it will break in and you could shot wolf.
If not look into replacing the buffer with a standard CAR buffer.

Not a **** thing wrong with wolf. I've shot thousands upon thousonds of wolf .223.

[DDgunslinger]

I have have a older model DDM4, and I've got about 5000rds through it of every kind of ammo under the son and I have had zero malfunctions. I'm curious to hear back on the next range report with different ammo.

[ssracer]

This is not the first report I've heard about a new DD not liking wolf. Pretty bad for what should by all accounts be an awesome weapon.

[Jeff.W]

Run it wet with a few mags of 5.56. My DDM4 (v4) had similar cycling issues with PMC .223 for the first 20-30rds. After wetting the bolt down everything after that first mag fed flawlessly and I still haven't had an issue to this day. Eats everything I throw at it.

[ssracer]

ARs do prefer to be well lubed

[Col.1981]

A 16" carbine is overgassed (long barrel/short gas system).

Load 1 round in the mag and see what happens. Does the round eject? Does the bolt lock to the rear?

Sounds like the failure you described was a failure to extract (may be tight chamber, new gun, sticky ammo or any combination of).

During a short stroke the fired round ejects completely but the bolt does not travel rearward enough to strip another round from the mag (this doesn't seem to be the problem in your case).

H buffers are standard fare for carbine gas systems even on 14.5" barrels. I think it's pretty common for people to run H2's on 16" carbines to smooth them out. But if you have a carbine buffer you could try it with the wolf ammo, but I bet there is no change except more perceived recoil. You could also look at your extractor/spring and see if it came with the o-ring from the factory while your in there.

I would shoot a few hundred rounds of brass though it, try a few different mags, see what happens and if it's not right send it back to DD.

I've have no problems shooting steel case through the DD upper I have.

[charliegriffitts]

2nd Range Report much much better. I don't know if it was one, or a combination of things that I did, but it worked. The first thing I did differently was I filled the gun up with so much CLP it was running back out of the charging handle as I was walking down to my little backyard range. I had read that out of the box they needed a lot of extra lube until they got at least a little broken in. I had 3 mags loaded with some American Eagle 223 brass and it shot perfectly. I then remembered a video I had seen on youtube about the wolf ammo, so I figured it couldn't hurt anything to give it a try. I dumped all my loose wolf into a box and sprayed it down with some clp and worked it around to make sure the cases had a nice greasy coat all over them. After doing that the rest of the wolf that I had also ran perfectly. After I buy some 556 and put that through it, I will then go back and try the wolf again, or maybe the tula that I already have sitting here, without putting any extra lubricant on the cases and see how it goes.

[hillbillytnt]

Glad the prob are history and you can start racking up range time. I don't think it is the wolf but I'm no expert. Just wondering and I think I have an idea but should under powered ammo show itself in loger or shorter barrels, ie gas impingement system.

[Col.1981]

Originally Posted by hillbillytnt

Glad the prob are history and you can start racking up range time. I don't think it is the wolf but I'm no expert. Just wondering and I think I have an idea but should under powered ammo show itself in loger or shorter barrels, ie gas impingement system.

Would depend more on barrel length AND gas system length.

Think of the distance between the gas port and end of the barrel. And gas tube length.

I think 'they' say a 16" carbine has roughly twice the pressures of a 20" rifle which should mean that slightly underpowered ammo should run fine.


BTW, glad you got it all worked out. I think you'll like that DD!

[guncrank1]

Originally Posted by charliegriffitts

2nd Range Report much much better. I don't know if it was one, or a combination of things that I did, but it worked. The first thing I did differently was I filled the gun up with so much CLP it was running back out of the charging handle as I was walking down to my little backyard range. I had read that out of the box they needed a lot of extra lube until they got at least a little broken in. I had 3 mags loaded with some American Eagle 223 brass and it shot perfectly. I then remembered a video I had seen on youtube about the wolf ammo, so I figured it couldn't hurt anything to give it a try. I dumped all my loose wolf into a box and sprayed it down with some clp and worked it around to make sure the cases had a nice greasy coat all over them. After doing that the rest of the wolf that I had also ran perfectly. After I buy some 556 and put that through it, I will then go back and try the wolf again, or maybe the tula that I already have sitting here, without putting any extra lubricant on the cases and see how it goes.

Please do not lube your ammo
That is not the answer
Rifles where not designed to use lubed ammo
That will cause the lugs to seat hard in the barrel extension.

[guncrank1]

Wolf ammo is steel cased
It is not maliable like brass, once fired it does not contract.
That is why AK use a tapered case and a big hook extractor.


Some AR will not function due to several things
Tight tolerance stack being one

The other posters have given the right answers so I will not repeat those.

Glad it works.
Bit of advice
Do not allow anybody talk you into opening up your chamber with a reamer
Not going to work
Chambers polished only

[Drewstang]

No offense, but to me this is like putting lawn mower fuel in a Ferrari. It should work for the price you pay, but it would run better on premium fuel.

[ssracer]

Originally Posted by Drewstang

No offense, but to me this is like putting lawn mower fuel in a Ferrari. It should work for the price you pay, but it would run better on premium fuel.

I have heard this argument before and I disagree. If im paying a premium price for a big name rifle like a DD, it should run with ANY ammo i choose to feed it. And the cheaper the ammo, the more range/training time you can get with the rifle, and more is always better there. I wouldn't own a gun that I had to use "premium fuel" in to make it work.

[hillbillytnt]

Originally Posted by Drewstang

No offense, but to me this is like putting lawn mower fuel in a Ferrari. It should work for the price you pay, but it would run better on premium fuel.

Mine does both, if it didn't I'd ask GC to fix it.

[toddinlou]

Run some 5.56 for a hundred or so rounds and then see if the steel case will run. Sometimes a mag or two is all it takes

[wash]

Glad to hear it did well the second time out Charlie. Hope it continues to do so.

[Lashout06R]

Im just glad it works.....

Originally Posted by guncrank1

Wolf ammo is steel cased It is not malleable like brass, once fired it does not contract.
That is why AK uses a tapered case and a big hook extractor.

Some AR’s will not function due to several things
Tight tolerance stack being one

The other posters have given the right answers so I will not repeat those.

Glad it works. <- I Second That !!
Bit of advice
Do not allow anybody talk you into opening up your chamber with a reamer, Not going to work, Chambers polished only

WISDOM ! AMEN !!

Originally Posted by Drewstang

No offense, but to me this is like putting lawn mower fuel in a Ferrari. It should work for the price you pay, but it would run better on premium fuel.

PREACH IT, Brother

“Eugene, please forgive those you show weakness”
Lashout06R

Personaly, I just beileve Soft Brass in a Soft Chamber.

But - Like dad always sad, Any Port in a Storm! Clear Skys today. ....

[jackalo626]

Originally Posted by Drewstang

No offense, but to me this is like putting lawn mower fuel in a Ferrari. It should work for the price you pay, but it would run better on premium fuel.

Not much of a defensive weapon if it is picky in what it wants to feed. I say if it doesn't shoot steel case it goes up for sale.

[Lashout06R]

“Eugene, please forgive those WHO show weakness”
Lashout06R

Personaly, I just beileve Soft Brass in a Soft Chamber.

But like ole dad always said, :Any Port in a Storm"

Clear Skys today.

Sorry, I had to fix the typos !!

[RecoilSensitive]

try the tula there isnt that coating, but again please dont lube rounds