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Old 12-23-2012, 11:54 PM   #1
 
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Default Survey: What "Reasonable Gun Law Reform" would/could you accept?

I asked this on non gun specific forums before asking it on here to gauge the response of gun owners that didn't sign up for an obviously pro-gun stance first. So now that I've gotten some replies from them, I'll ask here. (NOTE: These are not my suggestions. I'm just compiling them as I see them pop up and gain traction on news sites, social media, etc. This list will also be an expanded list since the responders will most certainly be more well versed in firearms lingo)

1. Background checks include mental health problems
2. Total ban on magazines over 10 rounds.
3. 15 rounds?
4. 20 rounds?
5. 30 rounds?
6. Different capacity bans for rifles/ handguns/ shotguns?
7. Ban on aftermarket mags allowing more than factory intended capacity?
8. Ban on semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines?
9. Ban on semiautomatic handguns with detachable magazines?
10. Ban on pistol grips?
11. Ban on collaspable stocks?
12. Ban on bayonet lugs?
13. Ban on hollowpoint ammunition?
14. National reciprocity to own and carry, own and not carry, or no license to own but to carry w/ federally recognized standardized test?
15. National license to sell?
16. Ability to perform background check during private sale?
17. Mandatory background check for private sale?
18. Mandatory training on par with LEO to own?
19. ALL civilians, including LEO, have equal access to firearms provided equal background checks, training, and proficiency checks are met; including newly manufactured selective fire weapons and all NFA items.
20. Firearm insurance.
21. None of the above?
22. All of the above?



On other, non-gun specific websites, the vast majority favors #1, about half like #14, and a very surprising majority favor #19, all of which I'm also a fan of.

On gun specific websites, "None of the Above" obviously won a lot more support.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:05 AM   #2
 
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I think the current gun laws work just fine. Sorry. Not trying to be a spoil sport. Nothing on your list would make anyone any more safe. I really hope no changes are made. But I do realize in the current political environment no change is unlikely.
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Have you ever shot an ak variant you didn't like?
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:06 AM   #3
 
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Default Re: Survey: What "Reasonable Gun Law Reform" would/could you accept?

None of the above. Murders with ar's account for less than 1% of all deaths in America.


I say we pass a new law making murder illegal. That should fix everything
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:11 AM   #4
 
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I agree with you, wash. The only thing I'd like to see is #1, but that's just due to the fact that I know a person who was ruled as "mentally unstable" enough to qualify for federal disability, and used the money he got, from the government, to purchase an AR 15 w/ 1000 rounds of ammo and a 1911; and was able to do so with no pings on his background check; all in the same day. I still can't believe thats kosher under our current background check laws.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:18 AM   #5
 
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Default Re: Survey: What "Reasonable Gun Law Reform" would/could you accept?

Quote:
I agree with you, wash. The only thing I'd like to see is #1, but that's just due to the fact that I know a person who was ruled as "mentally unstable" enough to qualify for federal disability, and used the money he got, from the government, to purchase an AR 15 w/ 1000 rounds of ammo and a 1911; and was able to do so with no pings on his background check; all in the same day. I still can't believe thats kosher under our current background check laws.
I am fine with number 1 as long as it is only when purchasing new.
I don't want to have to run and pay an ffl for a background check and mental stability test every time I trade a gun.


The one thing I am adamantly against is registering of weapons. No one should know what I have, trade, or buy
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:02 AM   #6
 
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The current form 4473 in question 11 f addresses mental illness to an extent already.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
It's a slippery slope when you start thinking how could this question be modified. Depression and anxiety are commonly treated issues these days. Would those folks risk losing their gun rights under an expanded mental health question? Who knows.
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I believe that is called a Kentucky reload.
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Have you ever shot an ak variant you didn't like?

Last edited by wash; 12-24-2012 at 01:02 AM. Reason: Forgot link to form
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:10 AM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnegan View Post
I agree with you, wash. The only thing I'd like to see is #1, but that's just due to the fact that I know a person who was ruled as "mentally unstable" enough to qualify for federal disability, and used the money he got, from the government, to purchase an AR 15 w/ 1000 rounds of ammo and a 1911; and was able to do so with no pings on his background check; all in the same day. I still can't believe thats kosher under our current background check laws.
Sounds like he/she may not have answered question 11 f of form 4473 honestly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feralghoul View Post
I believe that is called a Kentucky reload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by feralghoul View Post
Have you ever shot an ak variant you didn't like?

Last edited by wash; 12-24-2012 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:21 AM   #8
 
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I'm not a lawyer, or an FFL, so just speculating of course.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feralghoul View Post
I believe that is called a Kentucky reload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by feralghoul View Post
Have you ever shot an ak variant you didn't like?

Last edited by wash; 12-24-2012 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:25 AM   #9
 
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I would have no issue with someone deemed mental unstable being put into a database and that database connected to the background check. Especially in the example you offered where the person was classified as disabled by their mental issue. I'm still leaning toward that person falsified the form by answering g no to 11f
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Quote:
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I believe that is called a Kentucky reload.
Quote:
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Have you ever shot an ak variant you didn't like?
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:39 AM   #10
 
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Good read on the mental health issue. A database already exists but apparently many states are slow to report when a court declares someone mentally unfit.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...491395200.html
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Quote:
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I believe that is called a Kentucky reload.
Quote:
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Have you ever shot an ak variant you didn't like?
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:43 AM   #11
 
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Can't sleep. Figured I'd share this one too for those interested.
More on mental health and gun ownership.
http://m.ncsl.org/issues-research/ju...tally-ill.aspx
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Quote:
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I believe that is called a Kentucky reload.
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Have you ever shot an ak variant you didn't like?
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:43 AM   #12
 
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The Mental health issue is just anouther tool used to limit firearms to the American people. We Have forgot the foundation of liberty, in this country its innocent until PROVEN guilty.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:16 AM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAVR6 View Post
None of the above. Murders with ar's account for less than 1% of all deaths in America.


I say we pass a new law making murder illegal. That should fix everything
Yes here here

A national reciprocity law is complete BS
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:09 AM   #14
 
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Default Re: Survey: What "Reasonable Gun Law Reform" would/could you accept?

Quote:
The Mental health issue is just anouther tool used to limit firearms to the American people. We Have forgot the foundation of liberty, in this country its innocent until PROVEN guilty.
True.

And I don't think any of the mass shooters would have shown up on those lists anyways so what would it really solve?

Most people who commit mass murders are very intelligent people
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:13 AM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by son of liberty View Post
The Mental health issue is just anouther tool used to limit firearms to the American people. We Have forgot the foundation of liberty, in this country its innocent until PROVEN guilty.
This is it ^. It is NOT about anything other than disarming. They are just using children, so called public safety and mental health as tools to get it.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:51 AM   #16
 
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there is no such thing as reasonable gun law reform . i decline to complete the survey. thanks but no thanks
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:11 AM   #17
 
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If the def of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting a dif outcome, then how can we justify stricter gun legislation to prevent a crime that took place somewhere no one is legally allowed to have a gun. Evils biggest fear is an armed citizen.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:36 AM   #18
 
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the only way "metal health" should be used as a way to deny someones there right to defend themselves with a firearm is if the issues they are dealing with are sever enough and clearly cut and dry enough to warrant fear for societies safety from that individual.

Example would be highly schizophrenic individuals, or those with history of aggression issues. However, we already have provisions for dealing with this in place now and it has done all that it can. Making more paper work for legal guns will never be a deterrent for crime.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:16 PM   #19
 
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The only thing I'd suggest is that they improve the current/already in place system. Per the articles I posted above, the states are very slow on sending info to the federal database. I'm all for the current system being fixed, not the establishment of a new system to be clear. That one article said that the Virginia tech shooter would have been turned down if the state had of got his info to the federal database in a timely fashion.

To be clear, I do not support any new gun laws. I'm just saying the pro gun community could use this as an offering. "Fix the system we already have before starting anything new" is a good soundbite qulaity talking point that would make sense to the masses.
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Quote:
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I believe that is called a Kentucky reload.
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Have you ever shot an ak variant you didn't like?
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:54 AM   #20
 
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#19 "equal background checks, training, and proficiency checks are met". Yep, and they can specify "training" that could run into weeks and hundreds of dollars. Shooting a 3" group with a handgun at 50 yds could weed a lot of people out of "profiency". Some of these sound "commonsense" on the surface but it depends on who writes the specs.

The PROBLEM is still monsters. You can have all these checks and laws and if someone is determined to kill a bunch of people he can hit a LEO in the head with a rock, take his Glock, pop the trunk of his cruiser and take the shotgun or "assault rifle" and work his will on the innocent and unprotected.
Find a way to find the monsters and you have a solution.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:27 AM   #21
 
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The problematic word in this whole mess is "reasonable". That's a buzz word like "commonsense". If you are against anything, then you must be "unreasonable" or stupid, obtuse and obstructive because you don't support "commonsense".
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:15 PM   #22
 
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Remember, here is the list of people suspect of "mental instability" according to your very own DHS:
-Gun owners
-Those who believe in God
-Those who believe in the Constitution
-Those who support Ron/Rand Paul
-Tea Party participants
-Republicans
-Gun owners
-People who have more than 72 hours of food/water
-People who don't want Obowma Care
.....you get the idea.

The reasonable gun laws I would accept:
-Banning "gun free" zones
-Banning the restriction of cross state gun sales
-Mandating reciprocal CCW nation wide
-Banning the gun/ammo importation restrictions
-Prosecuting those involved in Fast and Furious for at least manslaughter, but a higher crime is likely more appropriate.
-A tax on anyone who does not own a gun, for the cost of relying upon the publicly funding police for their defense. (this law was introduced in Vermont recently )
-Mandatory public background checks for any politician offering up restrictive gun laws.
-Mandatory firearms training for any reporter who wishes to report on a story which even mentions a gun.
-3 day waiting period for any news story which has anything to do with guns.
-The passage and implementation of the Firearms Freedom Act, nation wide, not just the 8 who have passed it into law, and the other 20+ who have introduced it: http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/null...s-freedom-act/

I am sure I could come up with more.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:43 PM   #23
 
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I'm skeptical of anything requiring mental health tests for potential gun owners. What happens if the guy in your area is militantly anti-gun and won't grant permission to anyone? What if he grants permission to another nutjob kid who goes out and kills a bunch of people? We're back at square one.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:46 PM   #24
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
The current form 4473 in question 11 f addresses mental illness to an extent already.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
It's a slippery slope when you start thinking how could this question be modified. Depression and anxiety are commonly treated issues these days. Would those folks risk losing their gun rights under an expanded mental health question? Who knows.
Agreed, if you aren't careful we could end up with a law making a "mental health professional" sign off before we could own a gun. Just like no Judge wants to deny a woman a restraining order "just in case" no Shrink is going to want to sign off that you are good to buy a gun..."Just in case".

And I agree the other laws are fine. As far as mental illness there should be a national database of known cases. In the U.S. we are innocent until proven guilty I think..
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:06 PM   #25
 
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I think that the most reasonable reform we could have would be several things.

1. make the right to keep and bear arms the #1 law when it comes to restricting what weapons we can and cant have. Make this an across the country thing. I am all for states rights, but this is something that should be one set of laws to cut down on confusion and getting honest law abiding citizens in trouble.
2. simplify the gun laws already in existence. Just from listening to people talk it is clear to me that there is far too much legal confusion when it comes to the ins and outs of open and concealed carry.
3. make it such that when criminals do crimes with guns they actually get what they deserve. stiffer penalties for the violent crimes involving guns. make it where we start punishing the criminals again for there choice of using a gun in an act of violence rather than trying to take everyone elses rights away.
4provide discounted or free training to anyone and everyone, hell i would go so far as to say make firearms 101 a requirement in highschool.
less fear and ignorance equals less accidents and fear.

all this will obviously never work because america has let its education system go down the ****ter and the reward for being ignorant in this country is far to great.
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