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Old 03-09-2011, 01:58 PM   #1
 
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Default IN & KY sales or transfers

I was looking through the sales section and when it came up that the seller was from IN everyone ran away. My question is why? I bought a pistol in KY and had it delivered and transferred to me here in the Jeff area at Reloaders Supply. Can't everyone do the same coming this way and can't you use a shop in KY to transfer it from IN? If I am missing the boat here... I am sorry.

Can you tell me about problems you have had with dealing across the river either way?
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:05 PM   #2
 
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If you are like me and you prefer to do face-to-face transactions with qualified individuals who live in the same state and can legally possess and sell firearms then the added expense of shipping and FFL fees will sour some deals.

I have bought and sold using your method in the past though.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:05 PM   #3
 
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some people are lazy and don't want to fool with transfers. they'd rather do a FTF transaction than go thru the hassle of using an FFL dealer and shipping. I am with you, its not that hard to ship it to a dealer and go thru the proper channels.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:06 PM   #4
 
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FTF sales among individuals are against the law(felony) when state lines are crossed. It has to go to FFL between transfers. FTF in KY among residents or FTF in Indiana among residents is perfectly legal. yeah its stupid but it is what it is.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:09 PM   #5
 
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i say if an out of stater wants to do that then come to KY pay for the firearm, shipping and what ever fees it takes to send it to IN/KY. If they wanna pay the extra cool, if not cool. not gonna hurt my feelings
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:39 PM   #6
 
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I'm much more likely to sell to an out-of-stater and have them pay shipping fees than I am to buy out of state myself. If they wanna pay I'll ship it to them.

There are plenty of nice firearms to buy right here in the great state of Kentucky - so why buy anywhere else?
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:17 PM   #7
 
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i find that once you pay shipping and transfer fees the price just aint right anymore. that is why i dont buy or sell across state lines except for c&r firearms or antique firearms.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:00 PM   #8
 
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Hmmm... I would think that most would be willing to drive across the river to make a sale in most cases. I know I only paid about $10 or $15 for a transfer. But that being what it is... if you own a weapon in KY and move to IN then that is cool and you do not have to transfer anything... right?
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:10 PM   #9
 
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there is no grey area. if a seller knowingly sells a handgun to an out of state resident if they do not use a FFL in the purchasers home state(meaning where his DL is issuedfrom) then it is ilegal and both parties involved WILL go to jail period there is no "what if" when the BATFE is concerned period!
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:19 AM   #10
 
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I did not mean that as a "what if". I understood the use of a FFL. You can cross the river and deliver a weapon to the FFL and the new owner can meet ya there to sell.

But my second question was... if you own guns in KY and move to IN, you do not have to run that through a FFL when you move... right?

I am not looking to get away with anything. I know that 111 Gun Shop (Louisville) will deliver to Reloaders Supply (Jeffersonville) to do the FFL. They do this as a convenience for the IN residents. I thank that is really nice of them. They do this at no extra charge. Reloaders does charge a very small fee.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:12 AM   #11
 
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if ya move then no FFL is needed as long as the buyer and seller are in the same state.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:16 PM   #12
 
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Here's the strange part.
You can buy a long gun from a FFL in another state. And drive it home.
Pistols must be shipped to the buyers states FFL

I know a few years back the atf did a sting with people on the IN KY border.

If it's close enough to drive I would drive to a FFL to do the transfer. I would ask for gas money or you pay your FFL fees.
Why, added security. Do any of us really know if TDorH can have a gun >?<
Not hard to make a fake ID or permit ( I don't know how so don't pm me to death)

I deleted my account on another forum because guy a posted in open forums i'll meet you at the state line and toss cash across and you toss the pistol back. That way we don't cross the line. And I am pretty sure they did it because the site was shut down not 2 months later.

If you like guns be smart.

Instate sales even if you moved can be FTF so long as you a ??DL for the state of the sale.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:05 PM   #13
 
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Regarding earlier posts, I don't think wanting to buy face to face from a same state resident is "being lazy"

Just being smart. Yes, FFL's can make deals happen, and should for across state line deals. But to imply that wanting to buy without FFL involvement, legally/same state buyer/seller is not really an accurate assumption.

If JoeT has an SKS in Ky for $250, and JoeP has one in In for $250, I'm buying off of JoeT, NO FFL fee, no shipping, ect....


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Old 03-12-2011, 01:01 AM   #14
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For non-FFL's within the same state (or at leasy KY), this is where the CCDW comes in handy. If the buyer has a CURRENT CCDW, then it's reasonably safe to assume that he is not a felon! This is a simple process which protects both parties!

It's good enough in KY for the BATFE not to require FFLs to perform a NICs check so it should put anyone else at ease!
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:09 AM   #15
 
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:38 AM   #16
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:27 PM   #17
 
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good info. thanks guys!
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:48 AM   #18
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Have the laws changed on this recently? There is a Kentucky resident interested in a Sig 239 I'm selling. I told him we would need to deal FFL to FFL. He then told me his FFL told him it was legal for the two of us to FTF, no problem. I thought he was trying to pull a fast one.

I then called my FFL and asked him about it. He said that it is in fact perfectly legal for an Indiana/Kentucky FTF as long as I or the other guy do not hold an FFL license. Neither of us do. What gives on this? Are the two FFL's that's informing us incorrect or have the laws changed recently?
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:28 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Spazzmodicus View Post
Have the laws changed on this recently? There is a Kentucky resident interested in a Sig 239 I'm selling. I told him we would need to deal FFL to FFL. He then told me his FFL told him it was legal for the two of us to FTF, no problem. I thought he was trying to pull a fast one.

I then called my FFL and asked him about it. He said that it is in fact perfectly legal for an Indiana/Kentucky FTF as long as I or the other guy do not hold an FFL license. Neither of us do. What gives on this? Are the two FFL's that's informing us incorrect or have the laws changed recently?
Yes the law changed in 1968.....
Look it is real simple
You can only do a FTF with residents of same state.
And that means exactly that. There is no exemption with long guns vs handguns.
IT IS ALL GUNS!
If you a iN resident want to sell your SiG P226 to a KY resident, then the gun must be transfered to a KY FFL .
If you want to buy a 10/22 from a KY resident it must be transfered to a IN FFL.
FFL to FFL only depends on the recieving FFL it is not required by law.

I don't know what FFL said that but they is wrong.
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:55 PM   #20
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I just talked to a third FFL in Louisville. He told me it is perfectly legal for an individual to deal with another individual across state lines and that he has done it many years. He said it he has a friend that deals with the ATF on a regular basis that also informed him of the legality.

I then asked him why do everybody on gun forums' say it's illegal for FTF's between residents of two different states? His reply:"Because people are stupid and think they know the law".
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:58 PM   #21
 
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Note the state of KY allows any resident of any state to buy hand guns or long guns, but federal law still regulates handgun sales so federal law trumps state law.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:03 PM   #22
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Maybe that's where the confusion is coming from. Not sure why 3 FFL's would say it is legal.......but apparently against federal law. Found this on the NRA's website:

"Sales Between Individuals

An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence."
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:29 PM   #23
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazzmodicus View Post
I just talked to a third FFL in Louisville. He told me it is perfectly legal for an individual to deal with another individual across state lines and that he has done it many years. He said it he has a friend that deals with the ATF on a regular basis that also informed him of the legality.

I then asked him why do everybody on gun forums' say it's illegal for FTF's between residents of two different states? His reply:"Because people are stupid and think they know the law".
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for
temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State


where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]


I am not some guy on a forum trying to raise a stink.
I am a FFL with 27 years experience.
The above where cut an pasted from the BATFE web site with the US code numbers.

I never said it is illegal to buy from a residence of another state.
It is a felony to engage in interstate commerce without a FFL.
And a FTF between residents of two different states with an FFL on receiving end is aginist the GCA 68.

Why do you think that Gunbroker and other auction sites work?
It doesn't matter if the states are continuous or not.
The Feds require FFLs under the constitutional mandate of regulating interstate commerce.

Spaz you want to believe me or not , I really don't care.
You do as you see fit. I am not trying to stop you from buying/selling , just trying to keep person from commuting feleonies.

You have read two peaple write what the laws says.
One who works for an FFL full time and an FFL.
In fact you have had two FFL who sponser this site Armor-Hyde and myself tell you.

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Old 05-14-2011, 01:35 PM   #24
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Dude, chill out. I simply responded with what I was told by others. If you want to get all personal and call it a ****ting contest, then that's all you. I'm simply trying to find out why there are certain FFL's that say things to the contrary.

So you were forced to cite law? Why get all bent for doing so? At any rate, thanks for the effort.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:42 PM   #25
 
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Spaz sorry I apologize for the first post. I did edit out that remark
Nothing personal here, I just get a little bent sometimes.

Anyway you will get five different answers because the federal law is written like all federal laws, not very well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagdadjoe
Have you ever seen the aftermath of a penguin attack???? It's not pretty.
Yeah, they crap everywhere
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